R4 and S4?

[mklein9]

Billy and anyone else who might know,

Billy's formulas for pivot levels have been published a few times in this group/forums over the last year or two and I have calculated them and charted them. They range from S3 at the bottom, up to R3 at the top. They really are useful.

But we are now in territory where the S3 pivots for some timeframes are not enough to show us current support levels, AFAICT.

For example, today's IWM close at 66.06 is below MS3 (68.77), QS3 (68.17), and SS3 (67.70).

A couple of questions. First, are there such things as S4 and R4? S5 and R5? How are they calculated?

Second, before asking this I spent some time searching on the web for other pivot calculations to see if these levels exist. Exactly zero of the pivot level calculation methods I found matched Billy's method on all pivots. The "Standard Pivot" and "Floor Pivot" methods widely described match Billy's through S2 and R2, but diverge on S3 and R3. I found no pivot level definition at all that matched Billy's on S3 and R3. Is this otherwise well known and I am slow to pick up? Is there a reference anywhere that matches Billy's calculations all the way through, and hopefully goes to any arbitrary pivots (like S9 and R9 maybe even)? Do pivots that far out make any sense anymore?

-Mike

[Timothy Clontz]

The Robot pivot points are proprietary and incorporate 20DMF data as part of their calculations. I don't understand them and couldn't repeat them. But that's the point of a proprietary model :-)

[Billy]

Billy and anyone else who might know,

Billy's formulas for pivot levels have been published a few times in this group/forums over the last year or two and I have calculated them and charted them. They range from S3 at the bottom, up to R3 at the top. They really are useful.

But we are now in territory where the S3 pivots for some timeframes are not enough to show us current support levels, AFAICT.

For example, today's IWM close at 66.06 is below MS3 (68.77), QS3 (68.17), and SS3 (67.70).

A couple of questions. First, are there such things as S4 and R4? S5 and R5? How are they calculated?

Second, before asking this I spent some time searching on the web for other pivot calculations to see if these levels exist. Exactly zero of the pivot level calculation methods I found matched Billy's method on all pivots. The "Standard Pivot" and "Floor Pivot" methods widely described match Billy's through S2 and R2, but diverge on S3 and R3. I found no pivot level definition at all that matched Billy's on S3 and R3. Is this otherwise well known and I am slow to pick up? Is there a reference anywhere that matches Billy's calculations all the way through, and hopefully goes to any arbitrary pivots (like S9 and R9 maybe even)? Do pivots that far out make any sense anymore?

-Mike

Mike,
The S3 and R3 levels formulas used are reflecting exactly the classic “3” levels.
Often the formula is presented elsewhere under a different equation, but computing results are identical. You may check on freestockcharts.com and other platforms and you’ll see that their levels are exactly matching mine, although there may be some minor discrepancies depending on the reference database. One wrong high or low is enough to give different results.
I know that other levels beyond S3 and R3 are used by some experimenters but they are not common practice and useless in my humble opinion.
The decisive failure of IWM below all the “3” levels cluster would simply confirm that we are at the threshold of a major crash. YS1 is really the support of last resort (with max intraday extension to WS2) and I am very serious about this.
Normally, I would discretionarily enter aggressively long around YS1 if I see a lot of other strong floor supports nearby. It is way too risky in the current floor configuration. Volatility is too high for safe risk management and any position held overnight may trap you into an awful gap down the next day.
Billy

[ernsttanaka]

Mike,

Search the web and this group archive for reference to John Person -- I think he is the leading author on pivot points and how to use them in trading. (He even claims to have introduced them to the CBOT in the 70's/80's) Billy has frequent quoted from his work. I met John a couple times at public events, he is very dedicated to educating. See his website www.nationalfutures.com


Pivot and and S/R-levels are only working because big parties are using them as lines-in-the-sand. Inventing a S4/and R4 without convincing GS to use them a new line in the sand makes no sense. You need a big cash pool behind you to make a level work.

Ernst